Did David Payne check on the children on WED 2 May 2007?

As Gerry claimed in his 10 May 2007 interview. He also revealed David Payne was gone for 30 minutes from 18:30 on 3 May when he visited Kate and the children. Was Gerry covering himself by bringing David down if the truth turns out they were involved in Maddy's disappearance. David Payne was close to and protecting Kate on the morning of 4 May according to child protection worker Yvonne Martin.

Do you think David checked on the McCanns children? Do you think David visited apartment 5A at 18:30 on 3 May?

I have always wondered why Gerry McCann said that. Every other member of the group emphasised that the Paynes did no checking.

There is definitely some reluctance by Matthew and Russell to be precise about David's visit to 5A on Thursday evening. All three men walked up from the beach together, so they should have been able to know what David did on arrival.

Erm, so we went back up, erm, back to, well I went back to the apartment, got the tennis gear and back onto the courts or back to the courts area, erm, and the other guys went to get their stuff. Erm, and I think Dave said that he'd been to the apartment, but I don't know that for definite, that's just something I think has come out, I didn't know anything about that.
MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY
I recall that I went up to the social tennis around 18:00hours with Matt I think David went to the apartment and then up to Gerry’s..... I think me and Matt went straight to the, the courts, Dave went off to his apartment and I believe, erm, to Gerry and Kate’s apartment as well......1578    “You said Dave went to the apartment'”
Reply    “Well he did, but only briefly and then, well he went, he went back there and then, and then joined us
RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY

Of course the Paynes seem to have told a different story in their 'questionnaires';

He declares that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry........I examined once again the declarations of Fiona Payne. In her depositions, she states that she went to the McCann apartment, around 19H00, on the 3rd of May, together with Kate.
KATERINA-PAYNE-INCIDENT

The thread title refers to Wednesday  2 May, but the posts are mostly about Thursday 3 May.

This is what Gerry said: "On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007, as well as he and his wife, he thinks that DP also went to his apartment to confirm that his children were well, not having reported to him any abnormal situation with the children."

This is what DP was asked in his rogatory interview and what he replied:

1485 "Did you actually offer to check any of the children' I know you say that you didn't have to check yours.'

 Reply "Yeah, no I never, I never did offer to check. Err there, as much as I you know, know, knew all the children well I err I probably wouldn't have felt, you know, bizarrely I wouldn't have felt quite comfortable checking them, more, you know if I, if it was at home and perhaps one of the children wasn't settling you know I'd go upstairs and go well you know could you be quiet but there I didn't feel quite comfortable doing that, it just, you know if the child was crying or upset and not sleeping I think the first person you know at that stage probably''

Fiona Payne said in her rogatory statement:

"we just all felt it was fine to sort of operate our own baby listening service, I guess that's what we thought we were doing, what every MARK WARNER holiday we'd been on before did. Erm, tut, we didn't, Dave and I and my mum didn't because we, we brought our baby monitor, which worked, we'd tested it, it's a digital monitor so it's offering, erm, continuous monitoring of sound every second and it alarms if it loses contact or anything, so on the first day we'd sort of tried that by the, you know, by the Tapas Bar and it worked, so we didn't even go back and check our children, we took the monitor out, erm, and very much felt we were doing what we do at home".

I have wondered about the sleeping arrangements. I assume the Payne apartment was similar to the McCann one; 2 bedrooms plus 4 beds or T2 as they were recorded. In addition an extra bed settee was requested for Dianne who seemed not to want to share a room with her granddaughter.

The Oldfields and O'Briens were in T1 apartments, with just one bedroom. Both requested 1 cot. I have wondered where the eldest O'Brien child slept.

I often wonder if Gerry and David Payne's friendship has survived Gerry's efforts to implicate his friend in the nocturnal routines of that week. Firstly there was Gerry's claim that Payne had checked  his children on the Wednesday night even though both the Paynes and Fiona's mother claimed that the couple did no checking. Could Gerry, the clinical strategist, really have innocently made such an important  mistake? And then there was the 6.30 visit of Payne to 5a on the 3rd, which first came to light in Gerry's 10th of May statement, an inclusion which  always felt to me like an effort by Gerry to force Payne into a narrative that Payne wasn't particularly happy in supporting. Was the inclusion of both these events insurance in case Payne decided to go rogue and, if so, could that betrayal by his friend have had implications in the current investigation?

I think it was Fiona and Kate who were friends, not Gerry and David. In fact all the McCann's friends were really Kate's friends. I have found no friends where the connection was primarily with Gerry.

Grom wrote:I think it was Fiona and Kate who were friends, not Gerry and David. In fact all the McCann's friends were really Kate's friends. I have found no friends where the connection was primarily with Gerry.

Sounds as if Gerry was really 'Billy no mates', the pain in the Rse that everyone puts up with. I can understand that.

Grom wrote:I think it was Fiona and Kate who were friends, not Gerry and David. In fact all the McCann's friends were really Kate's friends. I have found no friends where the connection was primarily with Gerry.

From what I can ascertain Gerry and Payne's initial connection was through their wives although reading through the statements of all the individuals on the holiday it appears that Gerry was closest to Payne. How deeply that 'closeness' really ran who knows.

Travers wrote:

Grom wrote:I think it was Fiona and Kate who were friends, not Gerry and David. In fact all the McCann's friends were really Kate's friends. I have found no friends where the connection was primarily with Gerry.

Sounds as if Gerry was really 'Billy no mates', the pain in the Rse that everyone puts up with.  I can understand that.

Like "The Texan" in Catch 22?

From two witness statements given against David's behaviour and the different times given about his 3 May 2007 visit - 17:00 and 18:30 and further contractions between himself and Kate, one has to ask, why hasn't he been questioned as a suspect? In any other case he would have been.

David didn't give a second interview in May 2007 like others for some reason?

David claims he went into the apartment straight after the alarm was raised with Kate and Gerry so how come he didn't go in to the bedroom and see the open window as the McCanns claim? He was there but cannot even confirm an open window with his own eyes. That is most suspicious! A lot of his answers don't make sense to me - read his rog and the classic they had no bag big enough to HIDE a tennis racket.

"That he never went into the said bedroom occupied by the children but he could see that there were two beds and two cots." DP 4 May 2007

pathfinder73 wrote:From two witness statements given against David's behaviour and the different times given about his 3 May 2007 visit - 17:00 and 18:30 and further contractions between himself and Kate, one has to ask, why hasn't he been questioned as a suspect? In any other case he would have been.

David didn't give a second interview in May 2007 like others for some reason?

David claims he went into the apartment straight after the alarm was raised with Kate and Gerry so how come he didn't go in to the bedroom and see the open window as the McCanns claim? He was there but cannot even confirm an open window with his own eyes. That is most suspicious! A lot of his answers don't make sense to me - read his rog and the classic they had no bag big enough to HIDE a tennis racket.

"That he never went into the said bedroom occupied by the children but he could see that there were two beds and two cots." DP 4 May 2007

We do know that all statements were not released?

Slartibartfast wrote:

pathfinder73 wrote:From two witness statements given against David's behaviour and the different times given about his 3 May 2007 visit - 17:00 and 18:30 and further contractions between himself and Kate, one has to ask, why hasn't he been questioned as a suspect? In any other case he would have been.

David didn't give a second interview in May 2007 like others for some reason?

David claims he went into the apartment straight after the alarm was raised with Kate and Gerry so how come he didn't go in to the bedroom and see the open window as the McCanns claim? He was there but cannot even confirm an open window with his own eyes. That is most suspicious! A lot of his answers don't make sense to me - read his rog and the classic they had no bag big enough to HIDE a tennis racket.

"That he never went into the said bedroom occupied by the children but he could see that there were two beds and two cots." DP 4 May 2007

We do know that all statements were not released?

I think the questonaires completed by Payne may as for some interesting reading.

I certainly have some opinions about this whole DP GM 'friendship'
I keep coming back to his story...And Gerry seemingly trying to control who said what...why would he do that his daugter was missing maybe being tortured and god knows what but daddy seems to be very busy...

This holiday seemed like a good idea at first. Mark Warner, child care, sporty activities, baby listening; just what the doctor ordered lol.

The reality sounds horrendous. Sickness, dropping off and collecting children, a long walk to breakfast, wind, rain, cold, and the Benny Hill style child checking.

To add insult to injury the man to blame had no sickness in his family and no need to check his kids during dinner.

Quite why his friends didn't strangle him I don't know. Quite why they said they were enjoying themselves I don't know.

They weren't the type to make the best of things. They demanded a guarantee that they would be housed together, a block booking at the Tapas, a later time for the group tennis lessons and for the evening tennis, but not a word of criticism for the one who brought them to this place.

Hmm I think the Gaspars knew more about DP and GMc 'friendship'.
Something just doesn't sit right at all, from any angle. It is also revealing about the great friends they made... Freud as an example...weird