What the PJ might be investigating.

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What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by Grom on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:19 pm

I've always wondered what went on at the main reception desk on 3rd May.

he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.

That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child’️s father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again.

He then contacted the head of reception Vítor Santos and informed him of the situation.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HELDER_LUIS.htm

This man should have been asked which phone he used to make the above calls because it wasn't the main Ocean Club line. The first call to the GNR on that line was at'10.41 and Santos wasn't called at all.

He should have been asked about Matthew also, who says he went to Reception at 10.10 and asked them to phone the police.



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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by pathfinder73 on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:32 am

Agreed and Helder should remember Matt at the main reception at around 22:10. Matt said Gerry arrived about 30 minutes later with John Hill to make the call at 22:41. Matt was spot on with that time estimate in his rog and also said that they wouldn't call the police. I think Matt's been spot on about a few things including the half-open non-moving door (it never moved IMO). Pamela Fenn offered Gerry her phone at around 22:30 but urgency to call the police wasn't a priority for him or Kate. Deleting mobile log records on the other hand.........

The times are early in these statements as John Hill didn't get a call about the disappearance until 22:28.

"This phone call was made to the deponent's mobile phone at about 22.28 on 03-05-2007." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_HILL.htm

"With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR.

Given the circumstances, the witness thought it best to go to the resort to find out more about the situation.

When he arrived at the scene about 10 to 15 minutes later, he immediately went to the reception where the GNR were present, taking a statement from the girl's father.

The witness then went to the apartment where there was an agglomeration of persons, however he managed to perceive that the apartment did not show any sign of disturbance not that anyone had attempted to break in.

He adds that he heard it said at the scene that the mother had not left the shutter open as she always closed the shutter when she left. When asked, he says that he did not notice anything strange in relation to the apartment or its surroundings." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/VITOR-SANTOS.htm

IMO the PJ are working on the real lead and SY be now i.e. small remaining team. For the case to still be open, new forensic tests may have given them further evidence. Tests were being done but they've been quiet about them.

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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by Grom on Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:25 am

So Helder should have been spoken to again, we agree on that. Another one is June Wright. She said she heard about the disappearance at 10.15 from a Mark Warner employee. AFAIK none of the MW witnesses said they were in the Duque de Holanda' Bar, and if it was a searcher that was quite early. It was also early to be concerned enough to start alerting the local population. The McCann's friends searched alone for the first ten minutes. Dianne Webster saw no-one when she had a look round, she said. That informant should have been found.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JUNE_WRIGHT.htm

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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by Faithlilly on Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:40 am

Grom wrote:So Helder should have been spoken to again, we agree on that. Another one is June Wright. She said she heard about the disappearance at 10.15 from a Mark Warner employee.  AFAIK none of the MW witnesses said they were in the Duque de Holanda' Bar, and if it was a searcher that was quite early. It was also early to be concerned enough to start alerting the local population. The McCann's friends searched alone for the first ten minutes. Dianne Webster saw no-one when she had a look round, she said. That informant should have been found.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JUNE_WRIGHT.htm

If you look at many of the early statements, John Hill for example and the lady above, the time they were alerted to the disappearance was very early if, as Gerry claimed, Kate returned to raise the alarm at 10.13.

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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by Grom on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:04 pm

I agree. According to the nannies at the night creche searching had commenced by 10.15 (Charlotte Pennington) or even 10.05 (Jackie Williams). They were informed by a woman whose name they didn't know, but she was an MW guest. That woman should have been found and interviewed.

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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by pathfinder73 on Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:27 pm

Faithlilly wrote:
Grom wrote:So Helder should have been spoken to again, we agree on that. Another one is June Wright. She said she heard about the disappearance at 10.15 from a Mark Warner employee.  AFAIK none of the MW witnesses said they were in the Duque de Holanda' Bar, and if it was a searcher that was quite early. It was also early to be concerned enough to start alerting the local population. The McCann's friends searched alone for the first ten minutes. Dianne Webster saw no-one when she had a look round, she said. That informant should have been found.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JUNE_WRIGHT.htm

If you look at many of the early statements, John Hill for example and the lady above, the time they were alerted to the disappearance was very early if, as Gerry claimed, Kate returned to raise the alarm at 10.13.

10:13 is a big mistake by Gerry. The timeline is key in this case when a prime eyewitness has him elsewhere. Russell said he got back to the table at 9:45 and the waiter who served him confirmed that time. The alarm was raised before 10pm if Russell had only just started eating his meal minutes before Kate arrived as table witnesses recalled. I have the Smithman sighting just after 10pm - AS said they left Kelly's bar at 10pm.

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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by Grom on Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:53 pm

Then we have this statement;

He heard about the news being investigated on the evening of 3rd May at about 21.30 - 21.40 from P**** B******, a Dutchman and owner of the Atlantico restaurant, who passed by the witness near the Baptista supermarket, in P da L and who asked for his help in searching for Madeleine.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BAREND_WEIJDOM.htm

Why was the Dutchman not interviewed?

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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by pathfinder73 on Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:21 am

I think he was informed about the disappearance much later than the times given in his statement. The Dutch witness should have been interviewed to discover how he found out about the disappearance.

"He then went to the place where the events occurred which was at about 21.45 - 21.50. At this time various local people and MW staff were present."  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BAREND_WEIJDOM.htm

Emma Knight got the call from the creche at 22:17 informing her about the disappearance so that witness seems to be way out with his times.

"22.17 I received a call from Lyndsey Johnson, the creche Manager, informing me that the girl had gone missing." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by Grom on Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:31 am

Emma Knight testified in April 2008 that in May 2007 she had a phone call at 22.17. That's a very precise time to remember a year later.

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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by Watcher on Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:15 am

Grom wrote:Emma Knight testified in April 2008 that in May 2007 she had a phone call at 22.17. That's a very precise time to remember a year later.

Have to disagree on this one - the timing of telephone calls is generally reliable, either from phone records provided by the service provider or because the call is logged in the phone memory

Edited to add - in fact, any calls which can be precisely allocated a time represent the best place to begin. For example, the calls to the police that night were logged so we know exactly the time they were made. That then becomes a fixed point from which to extrapolate
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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by Grom on Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:15 am

It's unlikely that she remembered that exact time, as I said. Who, in your opinion, had access to this telephone information?

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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by Faithlilly on Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:25 am

Grom wrote:It's unlikely that she remembered that exact time, as I said. Who, in your opinion, had access to this telephone information?

She'd have the time she received the call on her phone.

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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by Grom on Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:37 am

What a pity Lyndsay wasn't so precise;

She indicates that on May 3rd 2007, at around 10.20pm, she was informed by her colleague Amy T. that Madeleine McCann had disappeared.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LYNSAY-JAYNE.htm

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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by Faithlilly on Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:48 am

Grom wrote:What a pity Lyndsay wasn't so precise;

She indicates that on May 3rd 2007, at around 10.20pm, she was informed by her colleague Amy T. that Madeleine McCann had disappeared.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LYNSAY-JAYNE.htm

I assume Amy just told Lynsay rather than phoning her and that's why Lynsay is less precise.

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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by Miss B Having on Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:27 am

If your daughter was missing,assumed abducted by paedophiles,what kind of person would want to delete phone records? I mean there is a real cruelty in that behaviour self absorbed as always...

And thtose supporters belive that if Maddie is alive she will want to be reunited with her 'happy' family... I'm not so sure...

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Re: What the PJ might be investigating.

Post by Admin2 on Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:39 am

The words of A. DRIBBLER.

'A more important point IMO is how reliable is smiths opinion it was Gerry... He said it was, based on how he held the child... It was dark.... He had been drinking... How, reliable, was it'

He appears to, have forgotten the McCann's and co were drinking, so how reliable are their accounts of events ?

DOH, to you DRIBBLE.
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